A bit of a tangent based on King Laugh's comments on over realized eschatology... It draws me back to the household codes mentioned in the egalitarian conversation. It strikes me now that all 3 of those relationships in the household codes (slave/master, husband/wife, parent/child) are relationships that will NOT persist in the eschaton. Now, there will still be authority structures in the eschaton (at minimum between humans and angels), but what will inter-human authority look like? And house does that vision influence our households (and churches) today?
Exactly! That’s the question. It’s the question of the status of the Orders of Creation. Christ relativizes these, but does not abolish them, at least not yet. ;)
I think the big divide in western and Christian ethics is about this question. Compare “there is neither male nor female,” with “but from the beginning, it was not so…” (Jesus’ appeal to creation order and its normative status).
To what extent can we live as if the end has already come? The radical reformation has tended to suggest we can, while other classical streams of Christian theology have emphasized that those orders are still in effect. And yet we don’t want to mute the revolutionary impact of Christ. Hence the question of trajectory…
Towards this end, living like eunuchs (celibates) is the way that we break into the eschatological, living with an eternal vision and breaking out the passing gender roles.
And for the marrieds, “Let those who have wives live as though they did not.” We must live in recognition that our temporal relationships and the things we value are coming to an end and will be surpassed!
Now I'd love to see more writing on that. It seems difficult to marry that idea with "Focus on the Family" and the whole culture of marriage-centrality.
“Marry” the two! 😂 That’s what we should discuss more - definitely tells against marriage-centrality in the sense that ignores the celibate, sexual minorities, etc.
I don’t think it tells against the proper honoring and encouragement of marriage, but how to do that without “centrality” or idolatry is a question. And then how to live with marriage relativized is the greater question.
WOW, great guest and a great topic. Looking forward to listening to this soon!
Fire throughout and full of insight. I really enjoyed this and will have to pick up Dr. Biggar's book. Very well done!
A bit of a tangent based on King Laugh's comments on over realized eschatology... It draws me back to the household codes mentioned in the egalitarian conversation. It strikes me now that all 3 of those relationships in the household codes (slave/master, husband/wife, parent/child) are relationships that will NOT persist in the eschaton. Now, there will still be authority structures in the eschaton (at minimum between humans and angels), but what will inter-human authority look like? And house does that vision influence our households (and churches) today?
Exactly! That’s the question. It’s the question of the status of the Orders of Creation. Christ relativizes these, but does not abolish them, at least not yet. ;)
I think the big divide in western and Christian ethics is about this question. Compare “there is neither male nor female,” with “but from the beginning, it was not so…” (Jesus’ appeal to creation order and its normative status).
To what extent can we live as if the end has already come? The radical reformation has tended to suggest we can, while other classical streams of Christian theology have emphasized that those orders are still in effect. And yet we don’t want to mute the revolutionary impact of Christ. Hence the question of trajectory…
Towards this end, living like eunuchs (celibates) is the way that we break into the eschatological, living with an eternal vision and breaking out the passing gender roles.
And for the marrieds, “Let those who have wives live as though they did not.” We must live in recognition that our temporal relationships and the things we value are coming to an end and will be surpassed!
Now I'd love to see more writing on that. It seems difficult to marry that idea with "Focus on the Family" and the whole culture of marriage-centrality.
“Marry” the two! 😂 That’s what we should discuss more - definitely tells against marriage-centrality in the sense that ignores the celibate, sexual minorities, etc.
I don’t think it tells against the proper honoring and encouragement of marriage, but how to do that without “centrality” or idolatry is a question. And then how to live with marriage relativized is the greater question.