Man, so much to say about this conversation. Great facilitating. And…Daniel is brilliant. I like how quickly he thinks and hyperlinks his thoughts to the massive library in his head. Also, we have some overlap (Virginia, UVA, William Wilson).
Things that resonated from all three of you: Paul not so much laying down dogma as problem-solving with and for the local church through the lens of the revelation of Christ. Paul not writing from an out-of-body experience like Muhammad. Yes. God delighting to work through less-than-perfect information and less-than-perfect response. Exactly. Wisdom over knowledge. “Did you really believe in the Trinity if you didn’t love your neighbor?” Paul as model, not just authoritative doctrine-giver. “It’s not my opinion. That’s what the Bible says.” Soul-crushing non-communal suburbia. Ivan Illich’s shadow work. “Modern wealth has made us not need one another.” People as fungible work units (Illich again). The elder is an open hand for the bird to come and go. Elder has roots in the unfolding of eternity. Situational reasoning.
My favorite point was near the end (which resonates a TON with my work): “An elder is trained in the art of incremental unveiling.” They know the amount and the kind of otherness that their people can handle in a given situation. Yes, yes, yes. My recent essay “Why God Hides” is about this, but applied more specifically to God. And I have an upcoming essay applying the same frame to Jesus in the Gospels.
P.S. Been reading Ivan Illich’s gender this week, so I was stoked to hear Daniel bring him up so many times. Daniel, I’d love to chat with you more sometime. Great, great conversation guys.
P.P.S. My recent piece in Mere Orthodoxy “A Parish Manifesto” fits well into this conversation, especially many of King Laugh’s points. Anyway, great stuff.
Ross! Thank you so much for giving this a listen and your outstanding comment: it's really appreciated! First, forgive the delay: we've been getting Belonging Again II.1 done and finally just did yesterday. Second, that's amazing you took classes with William Wilson! I adore him and still stay in touch. I would love to speak sometime on Illich (who I adore), and I'll also give your piece on Mere Orthodoxy a read. Thanks again!
Man, so much to say about this conversation. Great facilitating. And…Daniel is brilliant. I like how quickly he thinks and hyperlinks his thoughts to the massive library in his head. Also, we have some overlap (Virginia, UVA, William Wilson).
Things that resonated from all three of you: Paul not so much laying down dogma as problem-solving with and for the local church through the lens of the revelation of Christ. Paul not writing from an out-of-body experience like Muhammad. Yes. God delighting to work through less-than-perfect information and less-than-perfect response. Exactly. Wisdom over knowledge. “Did you really believe in the Trinity if you didn’t love your neighbor?” Paul as model, not just authoritative doctrine-giver. “It’s not my opinion. That’s what the Bible says.” Soul-crushing non-communal suburbia. Ivan Illich’s shadow work. “Modern wealth has made us not need one another.” People as fungible work units (Illich again). The elder is an open hand for the bird to come and go. Elder has roots in the unfolding of eternity. Situational reasoning.
My favorite point was near the end (which resonates a TON with my work): “An elder is trained in the art of incremental unveiling.” They know the amount and the kind of otherness that their people can handle in a given situation. Yes, yes, yes. My recent essay “Why God Hides” is about this, but applied more specifically to God. And I have an upcoming essay applying the same frame to Jesus in the Gospels.
P.S. Been reading Ivan Illich’s gender this week, so I was stoked to hear Daniel bring him up so many times. Daniel, I’d love to chat with you more sometime. Great, great conversation guys.
P.P.S. My recent piece in Mere Orthodoxy “A Parish Manifesto” fits well into this conversation, especially many of King Laugh’s points. Anyway, great stuff.
https://mereorthodoxy.com/a-parish-manifesto
Ross! Thank you so much for giving this a listen and your outstanding comment: it's really appreciated! First, forgive the delay: we've been getting Belonging Again II.1 done and finally just did yesterday. Second, that's amazing you took classes with William Wilson! I adore him and still stay in touch. I would love to speak sometime on Illich (who I adore), and I'll also give your piece on Mere Orthodoxy a read. Thanks again!
Thanks Daniel! Look forward to talking more.