Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Spouting Thomas's avatar

One point I want to bring up in this discussion: I do think it’s important to engage with mainstream science’s responses to the ID crowd. Many of which strike me as generally persuasive and sincere.

I’m not firmly committed here but I generally lean towards something like theistic evolution. And the reason is that, while I’m sure there is groupthink involved and a lot of people are metaphysically committed to evolution above and beyond its scientific merit, my sense, as a non-scientist, is that it does have its fair share of merit. There are areas in science where ideology is clearly dominating the science, and evolution just doesn’t feel that way from what I can observe.

Contrast ID with something like Fine-Tuning. Fine-Tuning is a devastatingly powerful argument, and I can see this, even as a non-scientist, by the fact that the two naturalist responses to it are exceptionally and obviously feeble: the Anthropic Principle and the Multiverse.

In my estimation, ID arguments can be used to support Fine-Tuning even if something like theistic evolution is generally true.

Expand full comment
David Frank's avatar

Reviewing BioLogos, your definition of evolution rings true with what the "Evolutionary Creationists"

believe (https://biologos.org/common-questions/what-is-evolutionary-creation), which I think is more or less the same as Theistic Evolution, though more explicitly Christian.

You say: "In particular, the idea that evolution is settled science makes belief in God superfluous or intellectually suspect. When Christians essentially concede that the secular view of how we arrived here is correct, they give up an enormous amount of argumentative ground to a culture that denies God’s relevance to the world."

Hmmm.... my view is that every molecule in the Universe depends on God, "upheld by the word of his power", so I don't see that evolution makes God superfluous. And I worry about anybody overly relying on these gaps and creating a "God of the gaps" phenomenon, where our God gets smaller and smaller the more we fill in those gaps with scientific knowledge. If in fact God is over all things, natural processes and natural gaps, then he never shrinks. Yet I can sympathize that some gaps are nonetheless impressive, including: origin of the universe, origin of life, origin of intelligence/rationality (which should probably include beauty, morality, and reason), and the origin of resurrection. These I think importantly help us recognize the omnipotence of the Creator, yet, on the other hand, I think that thunderstorms also do that (which we can more or less explain naturally).

Notably, Keller's book, "Making Sense of God" invites skeptical people into theistic and Christian consideration based on human existential ideas, not scientific gaps. One way that I think this is valuable is because it takes on the task of meaning-making, which I think would lead someone beyond the binary of atheism vs theism (many folks are more agnostic now anyways, because they think there is a Creator or higher power, but they don't have any stake in specifics). Meaning-making opens more doors to consider who the God is and what the means for us.

Expand full comment
11 more comments...

No posts